Ok, so out on our easy run this morning we finished with some light banter and stretching in the lounge and we got on the topic of 'Man Childs' and fast times etc etc. Anyway argument was that Corey Casey was the youngest NZ'er to break 2min for 800m and JP reckons Corey was 12yo whereas JVD thought he was 14yo. Now I can't remember, but I thought he may of been 13yo. I live with Corey so should probably know, but hes at work and I want to know the answer before I shoot off to work. Anyone know? Gort?
Youngest I have is Jason Stewart 1:56.8 at 14y 089d but I don't get all the junior results so might have missed some, especially from more than a few years back.
Wellington centre M15 (and M16) record is 1:57.19 by Paul Young in 1992.
Canterbury B14 record is 2:00.0, twice.
Haven't got Auckland records but don't recall any B13s running under 2:06.2 (Takapuna's Stephen Shirley from 1978 at school)
as for centre record availability (on their websites), Canterbury is the best and Auckland the worst...haven't checkad all centres though! :)
There are NO Auckland Junior records (14yrs and under). I tried to locate and update them a few years back but found nothing and some very unhelpful people. A real shame as there would be some good records in the past that have now been lost for ever. Some Auckland clubs keep club records but over the years many clubs have disappeared along with their club records.
Have found a copy of results Auckland Children's Champs from 2008 which includes the records. B14 800 is B. (Brent/Brendon?) Cooley 2:02.57 from 1989. B13 is M. (Mark?) Sumpter 2:05.09 also 1989 (so I was mistaken in my previous post!).
I have a sneaky feeling that Dick Taylor ran well under 2 mins for the old 880 back in the early / mid 60's. But will hav eto do a little digging to find out.
However, if you check his book he ran a 4:18.6 mile when he was 15, which was a World record at the time.
I recall seeing in the programme for Nationals at Wanganui 2005 that Dallas Bowden had a seed time for the 800 of 1.54 or 1.55... which would have been when he was 14 or 15, not sure when he first broke 2 mins though, might have only been that year.
Ok so just found out Corey was actually 14, so JP was full of cock and bull (which is most of the time) I just go with it usually. But still he went 1.58 as a 14yo which is still pretty impressive. Considering I didn't break 2min until I was 19 and in my first year of Uni....
A slight deviation, Awal and I now started asking what the largest negative split someone could hit to break 2min. Awal said 70 + 50 which I reckon is crap as world record is 50.5 + 50.5. How about 73 + 47?
Yeah i had run 1.55.1 when i was 14 at canterbury champs 2005. That was a just over a couple of months before i turned 15. I have a feeling Coom also ran fast as a 14 year old...
It would be interesting to know when Kent Lawton (WHAC and Rongotai) first ran under 2 mins as he won NZSS B16 800m with a solo 1:56 in Wellington about 1991. Not sure how long before that he had gone under 2 but it must have been around the age of 14.
Worst positive split I have witnessed probably hasn't been beaten by many - 51, 81 = 2:12. Hilarious to watch, especially considering it was a 1:46 runner who I've also seen come home in 24 high.
Anyone got an stats on Borzakovsky's negative splits - he must have some mean last 400's and 200's when he has been in tactical races. dc
Kent Lawton's 800m victory in B16 NZSS was in December 1990 (Wellington). From memory (must be 18 years since I last ran with him) Kent's birthday was March or April '75, making him 15.5 approx when winning that title.
My hazy memory of this is that Kent made big progress in his 800m times that season, going from maybe 2:01 or 2:02 down to that 1:56:high that he won the title in. I think the previous summer when he was 14 he was running great for a 14 year old, but didn't break 2:00 until later.
Not to sidetrack this otherwise interesting discussion with biographical discussion of all mentioned(!), but whatever happened to Kent? I know the cycling thing took him away from running by the end of high school.
Gopher, you make an interesting point when you stated "whatever happened to"?
I've said this before on here in regards to junior runners who ran superb times as juniors, then leave the sport not reaching their 'true potential', and I'll say it again...
Does it really make any difference if a junior runs a superb time at ages 14-19 but doesn't kick on as a senior? My answer is NO!
The amount of top junior runners who go on to have awesome senior careers is pathetic in this country, and I don't see it improving anytime in the near future given the New Zealand way of doing things in terms of coaching etc.
Agree that the drop out rate is bad Skillo, but in previous posts you have been less than happy when juniors target records. Surely if a junior is doing sensible training, has the talent, is healthy, and in good form, why shouldn't they have a crack at breaking records, and qualifying for World Juniors etc? Good on them. Good seniors are made up of a mix of brilliant juniors, good juniors and those who hardly even ran as juniors, it does not have to be a death sentence. Toni Hod' for example, was a very talented junior, broke lots of age group records, and went on to make an Olympic 800m final. And that guy Willis, he was well managed from NZ Junior records to not a bad senior career. Blincoe, NZ Schools XC title etc, and now holds the NZ Senior Mens 5000m record ahead of Quax.
I can certainly name way more good coaches in NZ than I can bad. How many juniors have you fostered/coached through the threshold and into successful senior careers ?
To what do you describe as a 'good coach'?
I've been a runner for over 30 years and have seen many coaches come and go... some good, some not so good.
This nurturing you make mention of; I would also include that word 'potential' as well, is not a realistic aspect if the junior doesn't kick on into senior grades, because more than likely they've often run themselves into burnout or fatigue, because of a desire to please a coach, a parent, or a school; all who often have differing views of what a young athlete is capable of; often by getting them to do too many miles or too much speed before they're fully developed, i.e mentally/physically/spiritually/emotionally etc
I can also state, because I've seen many young runners run themselves into the ground because the coach fails to take note of aspects such as physical or emotional development, or worse...burnout.
In relation to coaching, I have just started helping run a coaching session here in Dunedin. I was also employed at a school back in my hometown of Ashburton as a coach/technician. I don't coach because of seeking glory either, unlike some who I've seen who prize pick the 'best' athletes whilst dropping those that aren't as good in their eyes.
The emphasis should always be on sustained development, rather than chasing something at a young age.
The real work should always start once the athlete has fully 'matured' and not because they think they're ready.
I have read in Runnersworld of many top athletes of the past who shake their heads at the training some of the juniors are being given today, simply because they know that they will not last long in the sport when the real issue of training and racing as a senior should be taking place.
In relation to the runners you make mention of. Natural talent will always see certain runners come through. The key is to control the natural urges of those runners until they're fully developed to proceed into the senior ranks which is why I'm sure they had awesome coaches who were able to recognise this.
12 would be insane by the way....